Interviews
An Interview with Dr. Nasrollah
Pourjavady
by Jake
Benson - 2008
In the Spring semester of 2008, Nasrollah Pourjavady taught "Islam in Iran" as a visiting professor at the Roshan Center for Persian Studies at the University of Maryland, College Park Campus. One of the Roshan Center's undergradute students, Jake Benson, conducted the following interview at the end of the semester, and it was published in PERSIPHONY, the Newsletter of the Center (No.3 Summer 2008).
Q: Is this the first time that you have taught courses in the US?
A: In the fall of 2002, I was the NEH (National Endowment for the Humanities) Professor in the Department of Philosophy and Religion at Colgate University where I taught two courses; one on Islamic Philosophy, and the other on Islamic Mysticism.
Q: How did you first hear about the Roshan Center for Persian Studies?
I first heard about the establishment of the Center from Dr. Karimi-Hakkak during his visit to Tehran in 2003 and I was glad to hear that a center for Persian studies was being established in this part of the country, a center that would reach out beyond the world of academia.
Q: Have you had any previous interactions with the RICPS?
A: In February 2007, I was invited to give two lectures at the Center: one in English entitled “Literary Contests in Classical Persian Literature: a Forgotten Genre”, and the other in Persian entitled “Zabān-e Hāl dar Adabiyyāt-e Fārsi”, which was about an important literary device, a kind of personification, in Persian literature. Then I was invited to participate in the Rumi conference convened by the RICPS in September 2007. I delivered a paper entitled “Philosophy and the Philosophers in Rumi’s Masnavi”, and as the title indicates, I described Rumi’s views on philosophy.
Q: What classes have you taught at the RICPS?
A: During the Spring semester 2008, I taught the course Islam in Iran, which was an introductory historical survey of Iran during the Islamic period until recent times. We covered the rise and spread of Islam in Iran, and the establishment of Shiism as the state religion during the Safavid period. We also covered more recent times: the events that led to the Iranian Revolution, the downfall of the Pahlavi Dynasty, and how Islam became politicized as a result. Recently, I have offered a weekly lecture series on various Persian mystical literary figures that represent different genres such as Ahmad Ghazzali and the Illuminationist figure Shehaboddin Sohravardi. Currently, I am teaching a summer course Modern Iran.
Q: What sort of students took your course Islam in Iran?
A: There were some students who were familiar with Iran, such as Iranian students and Muslim students from other countries, as well as Americans who were not so familiar with Iran or Islam. The students taking the course majored in different areas. They brought to the class a high level of interest and appreciation, and a desire to obtain a broader, more nuanced view of Iran from someone coming from within the culture.
Q: Why do you think students in America are interested in Islam today; this interest did not exist when you yourself were a student here in the 1960’s, did it?
A: Yes, In the 60’s some kind of interest in Islam began to develop among a few Americans, but that was mainly an interest in Sufism. Even I who had come from Iran was caught up in it and became interested in Islamic philosophy and mysticism in those years, when I was an undergraduate student in San Francisco. The interest in Islam today, however, is for a different reason, and is on a much larger scale. Today the students in America are interested in Islam for two main reasons; one is the Islamic revolution in Iran. They want to understand the ideology of the people who took of the Islamic Revolution, the people who later took Americans as hostages, the government whose ambition in following its nuclear program is costing so much for its people, and making its country the focus of attention in world politics today. The second reason is clearly the events of September 11th 2001. Americans want to know why the individuals responsible would perpetrate such a heinous crime. They want to understand why suicide bombers kill so many innocent people every day in Iraq. In short, Islam, unfortunately has become the ideology of killing, hatred, and terror, while in the 60’s, Islam, particularly Islamic mysticism and Sufism, was represented as the ideology of love and peace.
Q: But Iranians were not responsible for the September 11th attacks, and even in Iraq, the majority of suicide bombers appear to be Sunni Muslims?
A: Yes, that’s right; no Iranian was among those who perpetrated the crimes of September 11th. In fact Iranian people were just as dismayed, sad, and shocked as any other people in the world when they watched that horrid scene of the World Trade Center towers burning on television. Mind you, the Shia Iranians themselves have been subject to the terrorism by organizations such as al-Qa’ida. For example, the bombing of the Imam Reza Shrine in Mashhad on June 20th 1994, caused the deaths of almost a hundred people. Ramzi Yusuf, who is currently held imprisoned here in the US for his role in the first World Trade Center bombing, confessed to have planted that bomb. Iranians, as Shi’i Molems, think of al-Qaeda, who are Wahhabis, as their enemies and will have nothing to do with them. In addition, Iran also suffered from the Taleban when a number of Iranian diplomats were brutally murdered in Afghanistan.
Q: Hasn’t the Islamic Republic been aggressive, tough, and even repressive? Aren't they considered to be a state sponsor of terrorism that has nuclear ambitions by the US government?
A: The Revolution was not supposed to turn out this way. That revolution was started because the Iranians thought that the Shah’s government was corrupt and therefore unable to address the problems facing the nation at that time. We thought that spirituality was the answer to the materialism and militarism that the world was facing. We thought it was Islam that could transform the culture of consumerism and materialism and replace that with a more humane and compassionate one. The Shah was violating human rights, and we thought that an Islamic Republic would endorse and support such rights. We thought that the Shah was negligent towards the environment, and it was Islam that would save the environment; Islam for us was “green”. The Shah’s ambitions included a nuclear program, and I recall that some of revolutionaries in those days, who are right now active in the government of the Islamic Republic, were highly critical of the Shah’s nuclear program, but somehow things changed. I hope, however, things will change for the better and a more positive image of Islam will be presented to the world by my country.
Q. Were you able to discuss these points in your class?
A. Yes, more or less; and I’m glad, I should say, to see such interest among students in clarifying history.
Q: Why do you think Muslim students in particular took your course?
A: Their motivations were mixed. Some thought that it would be an easy course for them, since they were already familiar with Islam, and that they could make an easy grade; however, I don't think that this proved to be the case, because they all had to work just as hard as non-Muslim students. In fact, an American student earned the best grade in my class. Others took the course to attain a better understanding of Islam, and some really wanted to confirm their belief that terrorist acts carried out in the name of Islam are not really Islamic. In fact, one of the papers in this class was on this very topic. It demonstrates how Moslem students in America are uncomfortable with this prejudicial view of Islam that unfortunately exists today.
Q: What is your view of the cultural exchanges that have taken place between Iran and the US over the last decade? Have they been helpful?
A: Not as much as it could have been. If you recall, it was during the Clinton Administration and that of President Khatami in Iran that both countries expressed an interest in having improved ties which led to a series of cultural exchanges between the two countries. Both nations sent scholars and academics to each other’s countries, but I don't think that it has really worked as well as it should. This is mainly due to prevailing political obstacles. Both countries should have made more vigorous efforts in these exchanges. In the long run, improved cultural ties and academic cooperation, such as those of visiting professors, will be for the benefit of both countries. Such exchanges can also play an important role in solving the political problems between the two nations.
Q: What do you think about the current state of Persian studies in the US today?
A: I think that in recent years there has been more of an imbalance in favor of current events and socio-political issues, and even modern literature, over historical periods and classical literature. Iran did not become a nation only with the advent of the Constitutional Revolution of 1906; it has a very long history that has resulted in an important cultural legacy for the entire world. While some programs have shied away from more classical subjects in favor of contemporary issues, I think that this is a mistake. For example, even if a student wants to focus only on modern Persian literature, it is imperative for her or him to study the classics as modern works can rely very heavily on earlier themes.
Q: What was your overall impression of the Roshan Center at the University of Maryland?
A: While the center is still very young, it holds a great deal of promise for the future. There are few places where students can pursue research in Persian language and literature. There are few American universities that offer courses in Iranian studies, and even fewer that offer courses in classical Persian literature. In terms of faculty and students, the center is still developing, but it is fortunate to have Dr. Ahmad Karimi-Hakkak at the helm, as he understands and is intimately familiar with not only the Iranian world, but with both classical heritage and modern Persian literary genres as well.